Mark Allen and Laura Siddall on a Wide-Open Kona

Hello everyone and welcome to another edition. It used to be called "Find Your Finish Line." I'm changing it to "Finding Your Finish Line" because my new book is out, "Finding Your Finish Line." probably heard about that, available in all formats on Amazon. And the eBook, the Kindle, is on sale for a limited time for 99 cents, so pick that up. And as you've already heard too, I'll be going back to Kona. You've heard that announcement, and that's what we're going to talk about today. I've got the six-time IRONMAN World Champion, the world's fittest man and the very first person I ever called across an IRONMAN finish line. Mark Allen, how you doing, Mark?

Good, Mike. When you said the first person I ever called across the finish line, I was thinking, I'm glad I didn't crawl across the finish line because I would have been the first person you called across and also the first person you called across who was crawling across. Like oh my God, my brain's going. You are. You are. Think about that. stumbling looking like Chris Lee or something, you know what I mean? And here that would have been what was your first call Mark Allen? Oh, and he was drooling on one knee.

No, I think it's just iconic or epic or cosmic or synchronistic that the first IRONMAN World Championship that you called was the first world IRONMAN World Championship that I was able to win. I mean, it was obviously, I'm sure an emotional day for you. I mean, I would love at some point get your feeling or opinions on how was that for you to call that first race, first IRONMAN World Championship. And obviously for me, very emotional to be able to win after so many years of trying and falling short, being close, not winning, and then having that iconic race that still stands as one of the ones that I get people coming up to me all the time saying, "You know, I just, I watch that when I'm in a down moment because it just picks me up and makes me realize anything really is possible. It was a watershed moment, I know for both of us.

And emotions are always high at the finish line and you never know what to expect. And when I saw you come in and, God, the look on your face and knowing the story and you were training in San Diego and the number of times you didn't come across in first and there you were, it was almost like a Hollywood script. And I go, it happened. I was saying to myself, it happened.

He did it, he did it. So we were all right there with you. Not as emotional as you were obviously, but right there with you. Yeah, we could go on for hours about that. But what we're gonna talk about is the men's race in Kona this year. And it's always interesting 'cause we've done this before the last two or three years, Mark, of trying to figure out the men's race.

But I'll start off right away with, I hope you do realize that the number one, two, when three seeds are from Norway. Did you ever expect in your wildest dreams that that would happen?

You know, I guess a better question would be, did I ever see in my wildest dreams that there would be a country again that dominated the podium? You know, like in the earlier days, the United States dominated the podium more in the men's side than the women's for a longer period of time. but it was, you know, US, US, US, that kind of a thing. And then the little plucky guy came along, Greg Welch in 1994 and decided, okay, I'm gonna show you it's not just an American thing, even though he was in a sense American 'cause he was living in the US.

But anyway, to think that, you know, I just look at, I look at trends in sport and it seems like countries have trends in sports, right? And so, you know, when we went into the, like, let's say the London Olympics, you know, England, the UK decided, they started to dominate in cycling and they dominated in triathlon. And then, you know, more recently, it's been the Norwegians who've been dominating, both winter, obviously, and then also in summer Olympics.

And in triathlon, clearly last year at the IRONMAN World Championship, the men's race, here in Nice, France, where I happen to be at the moment, it was Norway, one, two, three. And so, like you said, first, second, third place, number one, number two, and number three seed are gonna be Norwegians, which it is actually pretty mind boggling. But I think if you sort of sifted apart a little bit and pulled the curtain back, you'll see some similarities.

Like, you know, when I was competing, Myself, Scott Molina, Scott Tinley, Mike Pigg, Ken Souza, some of the top athletes in the world in multi-sport were all training together and we had a real good camaraderie.

There was a certain element that was competitive about it, but a lot of it was more supportive than anything. And a lot of it was experimental and exploratory. We were exploring, how can we take the stuff that everybody knows and figure out a way to make it something that nobody else knows? how to make it even better. And so we had this sort of think tank of endurance athletes who are training together. And if you look at the Norwegians, you got Casper Stornes, you've got Gustav Iden, you've got Kristian Blummenfelt, you've got Solveig who won the women's race in Kona last year.

You have Norwegians who are training together, especially the men.

And I think there's a, if the camaraderie is right within that, if the dynamic is right, it becomes a real focused think tank of people who have the genetics, they have the motivation, they have the dedication, and they're exploring together and going, how do we take these things that everybody else knows and add a little bit of special sauce to it and make it something that nobody else has seen before?

What comes to my mind is American sport of baseball and football in Europe, soccer as we call it here, and a lot of individuals from different countries, and they support one another, they're teammates. But when it comes to our sport, when the Americans and you dominated, and then Welchie came along, and the Australians with Crowie, and then the Germans come along, and there has to be something said.

And you mentioned the word camaraderie, and I always think it's too less of a term for that. It's like, I have to do much better because my buddies are depending on me and I'm depending on them. It has to somehow raise the level of how you think, how you eat, drink, breathe, and train. It has to raise the level, and it's not scientific. And it's hard to put a finger on it, but don't you feel that's probably true?

Yeah, 100% true. It creates a level of accountability that you can't get any other way. Accountability to doing the hard things over and over and over.

Keeping the distractions to a minimum because you have this accountability to your other compatriots that you're training with.

you have an accountability just to not be complacent with what you're doing and go, I'm comfortable doing this, this is getting me good results. But instead you're sort of working together and it's not like a written contract or anything,

it's an emotional connection and again, just basic connection that you have with these other people that you're training with, and you all know that you're out for the same thing. You're out to elevate what's going on. And you know that somehow with your group effort, you're gonna be able to do that. And when you know as a group, you're gonna be able to do that, somehow each one of you will be a piece in that puzzle of discovering what's possible at that next level.

It just fuels the whole process. And it's very, very hard to do that on your own. Like if you're training on your own, you can look at numbers on Strava, you can look at things in Garmin or whatever it is,

but it's not the same as when you're out there on the track with these other people, in the pool with the other people, doing the workouts with each other. And even if you don't do them all together, you do enough of them together that you have this common understanding of how the progression is working or not working and you adjust. You just can't do that on your own.

I mean, really look at any industry where something has gone to that next level. Look at like the tech industry.

Steve Jobs, all those, that whole generation,

they had this thing that was going on together where they helped each other out. And it's, but it's hard because just because you're all searching for the same thing doesn't mean that you can have a camaraderie and you need that camaraderie element. So like there might be people who are searching for the same thing that you are, but you're very competitive with them. And so there's not that openness of sharing of what's really going on when you do workouts or what do you think about changing these things up?

How do you think that's gonna work together? You know, so if you're in competition with the people that you're sort of in camaraderie with, that doesn't give the same result. But when I checked into the hotel here in Nice, I'm here for the IRONMAN 70.3 World Champs,

Kristian and Gustav were just ahead of me. And you could tell, they're just like buddies. And this morning I was at breakfast and, you know, here's Kristian, here's Gustav, here's Taylor Knibb, here's Jelle Geens, they're all just like hanging out, sitting together, having breakfast together. That's a camaraderie that creates something special. I think that's one of the best things about our sport. And you and the Tinleys and Molinas of the world helped create that because you live together, train together, suffer together, figure things out together.

And that has gone through the test of time, Mark, with our sport because that's the way it always is. And when people ask me, what about this pro, this pro? They talk to each other. We talk to each other. You kidding me? They, some live with each other. They're working out hard together. It's kind of an amazing thing, but that's not to say Stornes and Iden and Blummenfelt aren't gonna be fierce competitors in Kona on October 10th.

And so let's throw the island into the mix right now. That's always the part that you never really know Because Nice was last year and sure they've all been to Kona. I don't think Stornes. Yeah, he No, I don't think he's done Kona

Because he won last year I don't think you know, he won Nice I don't think he won I don't think he's done Kona done Kona. So He might have don't don't yeah, I mean, I know I'm gonna say the same and Martin ran real and Sam Laidlaw Obviously our old-time favorite Patrick Lange at 40 years old. How great is that? Right in there, right? So what do you think about the top five or six that you've looked at? Is gonna gonna make a difference with any of them or doesn't it make a difference? Well, it's just interesting that there's so many

Champions IRONMAN world champions who are gonna be competing together, you know You've got the vet, Patrick, obviously at 40 or whatever he's going to be on race day.

You've got Casper who won last year, but he's not proven in Kona. You have Sam Laidlaw who looks like he should be able to win Kona. He just fell a little bit short. He fell apart a couple of years when he was there last, but he's got the goods to do that. And then you've got the proven Gustav Iden. He's won there. You have Kristian Blummenfelt who has never won there. But you have all of these incredible athletes. And one of the interesting things that has been brought about recently is that in the early years it seemed like athletes had to put in their time before they finally were able to crack the code in Kona with the exception of maybe Dave Scott who started really early and maybe figured it out right away. It wasn't as much competition however you want to frame that. But you know it took me seven tries to get it right. It took Mac a bunch of tries to get it right and a lot of athletes like that. Recently you know there's been people who've shown up first time and won it. I mean Gustav Iden for one of them. You know so It's a different dynamic in that there's so much information available about how to get ready for that race at that elite level that is common and shared. And so it can prepare somebody to be ready for it before they have to go through sort of like that trial by fire. And in some ways, If you can win without the trial by fire, that's kind of a cool way to do it.

The thing that's going to be interesting, and this came from

one of the World Championship team members who lives in Kona herself, who's here in Nice, she said that they're predicting that October is going to be the hottest month of the year this year in Kona. Hotter than ever before. And right now, she said, the water, the ocean has already hit 88 degrees. So that's why we're seeing the hurricanes that are coming up and getting close to the islands along with a lot of wind shear things that normally don't happen with El Nino. So we could have race conditions that nobody in this current generation thought they'd have to I don't want to go back and go, "We had it harder than these young bucks now. It's so much easier." You know, it's always hard in Hawaii, but there's also that extreme level that we haven't seen in years.

So if it's extremely hot, the hottest month of the year in Hawaii, which is saying a lot because it said it's already been so hot and so humid, it's just unbearable.

I don't know if anybody's actually mentally or physically thought about, "How do I mitigate if that's actually what race day is like. If there's anybody who I think probably has thought about it quite a bit and maybe prepared, it would be the Norwegians. You know, they just look at it very pragmatically, like, okay, these are the conditions, these are the conditions that we might have to face, how do we prepare for those? And let's not get caught by surprise when we're over there.

I was speaking with Sam Laidlaw's father at Challenge Roth this year and he said, "Things are looking promising for Sam for Kona because one, he's a lot healthier than he's ever been. He's racing faster with lower heart rates at watts than he's ever done before." So he's been kind of under the radar, like nobody's seen you recently. Yeah. You know?

Well, how much, you know, there's the jockeying about how hard they're going to go out on the bike and do you let somebody go and if the heat factor is up.

A lot of times, and I've been there in hot years and so have you, where people really didn't, even the pros didn't change their game plan. And then we'd see him walking at mile 20 on the run. So do you think the Norwegians would adjust more than, say, some of the Aussies or Mark Marquardt, you know, the US or Sam Wong? You think they'd figured out that deeply, where they would, "Oh, my gosh, so-and-so is riding like the wind, and he's already, you know, four minutes in front of us, eight minutes in front of us"? You think they'd let that happen?

Well, I think if you look back at, let's say, the women's race in Kona last year, you know, the conditions were a little more extreme than we had seen in many years. And it appeared from the outside anyway, that maybe Lucy and Taylor didn't quite adjust for those conditions. You know, they got caught up in the competition. You know, Lucy's leading the race, Taylor's behind, it's looking like this one-two thing's going to happen. She falls apart, she drops out. Looks like Taylor's gonna win. She collapses on the Queen K. Solveig comes off with the championship.

I think the, if anybody is able to adapt based on what they know that they can, what they can tolerate, it would be the Norwegians. Wow. I don't know if the Americans done quite the same level of analysis and thought about what if things are super extreme. Again, I don't talk to these guys, but that seems to be the sense.

I think Sam maybe has gotten caught up, Laidlaw has gotten caught up in racing something that he's not quite capable of. Clearly, if you fall apart, you've done that. and he did that, you know, he fell apart a couple of years ago, two years ago.

Anyway, that's, that's a long way of working around the fact that we have, I think probably the deepest field of potential winners in the race. Um, and it's going to come down to the person

who prepares for something that's unexpected most, and then who's willing to adapt on race day and let things unfold based on what they know that they can do and maybe throw in a little bit of hope in there, right? And then just see what happens. So, you know, like I'll take it back to my time because I can relate to that and I can tell the story. You know, 1995, I was doing my final IRONMAN and, you know, I got actually took the lead of the bike very early, like 15 miles into it.

But then Thomas Hellriegel and Jürgen Zäck passed me and they were on a blistering pace. I tried to stay with them for a little bit, but I thought if I do this, I'm going to blow up on the marathon. So that was a decision where it could have been critical to a victory. I thought they'd get five minutes on me, but Hellriegel got 13 and a half. So I come off the bike and I'm thinking, okay, that's impossible. But I was able to close that gap. But the only reason I was able to close that gap is that I went as absolutely hard as I could but stayed within what I knew was my limits to be able to have an overall great race without blowing up.

And I think that's going to be the key for whatever happens out there. There will be people who are going to think, you know, we have better nutrition now, we can haul ass on the bike, we can get in, you know, 150 grams, maybe even 200 grams an hour on the bike, so we're going to come off the bike super fueled up. But Kona, if it's hot and you get out there past town and it continues to heat up but it's not as humid, you're sweating at max sweat rate, but you don't know it because it dries really quickly. And so athletes might think that they're staying within their range, but they're not because they're getting like dehydrated and really dehydrated. And if they haven't adjusted for, let's say,

extra sodium, if it's windy and they haven't adjusted for an extra amount of time that they're going to be on the bike, like you got to ride 112 miles, 180k, but if you ride it in four hours or you write it in four and a half, that's a lot more calories. You're pushing the same watts, you're pushing the same heart rate, you're just burning more calories because it's harder because of the wind, right? And so if that isn't taken into account for we could see amazing lead changes, some epic blow ups. I am not going to predict who's going to win that thing. well, maybe Kristian, I don't know. Or maybe Sam because he's gotten smarter with age. Or

the super long shot would be Patrick because this is his last one and there's something about having to be your last. But I just think the other guys have elevated things to a whole new level with what they can do. And maybe it'll be Casper. Nobody was predicting him to win a there were points on the marathon. Like it was the most exciting start of the marathon of an IRONMAN World Championship I have ever seen 'cause he had, what was it, six guys off the bike together. You know, and the lead changed over and over and over and guys would push and then they'd fall off and somebody would fall off, but they'd come back and you know, they just went like that.

And nobody's talking about somebody like Magnus Ditlev.

Who can run with him. Yeah, you know, what's he been doing? Where's he been? Is he ready? I don't know. So I am like super excited for this year's IRONMAN. Well, it's funny, Mark, you mentioned lead changes. Before we got on the air, I wrote lead changes down. I don't know why it popped into my head. Maybe because I was thinking of the race last year in Nice.

But it always seems that the more competitive the race and people start pushing to the limit and maybe they went a little too much overboard, there's gonna be a lead change. And they could come back like in Nice last year where everybody was like this. So I wrote that down, lead changes. I think you hit it on a head with that because it could, especially if, you know, in Southern California, you know, it's 105 here where I live near San Diego today and it's been like that.

So I know that weather over there could be brutal. What do you think about guys doubling up and doing the 70.3 championships and a month later coming to Kona?

I mean, always in my mind, I think it's got to take something away from Kona for them, not the Oro or the race, but take something out of their tank for Kona. Yeah, you know, there's that element of a great performance that has to do with your level of reserve that you have in your body. The level of reserve that you have in your body is sort of like if you think of groundwater that gets pumped out for, let's say, irrigation or whatever, that groundwater deep in the water is deep under the earth. It's sort of like your energy reserves that you have in your body. And when you race really, really hard, when you go to the well in a race, which is gonna happen here in Nice in a few days for a lot of the guys, that doesn't get replenished with, you know, if you're thinking about groundwater, that doesn't get replenished with one rainstorm.

It takes many to seep down and replenish those water tables. And it's the same with your deep energy reserves. you tap into that, it does not get replenished overnight. And so you've drawn on your emergency battery. And so to do that four weeks before Kona,

depending on how much of that deep reserve you have stored up going into Nice, yeah, you can have a great race in Nice and a great race in Kona. However, for me, I don't think I could have done both that close together, because right at about four weeks before Kona was when I was logging some of my biggest miles. And so it would really take some adaptation in the training regimen to be able to preload what you're gonna need for Kona, have enough, don't fry yourself so much that then you could come into the IRONMAN World Championship here in Nice for about four weeks out or whatever it is,

have an amazing race here,

recover and then do like one last little, let's say 10 day blast of full IRONMAN distance stuff and then recover for Kona. It's super, super complicated. It is possible, it's not probable. You know, and then somebody was talking about the people who've won 70.3 Worlds and Kona in the same year. I think Craig Alexander did it and I think... She did it in... Who am I thinking of?

Oh, God.

Her name is like on the tip of my tongue. I was just reading something about it today from England. Yeah. Oh, my God. She won one Cone and she won 70.3 Worlds the same year it was. Same year. Yeah, we both look like- Tall, beautiful Brit. Yeah, we both look like idiots here. Anyway, there's only been two people who've done that in the whole history of this racing.

Leanda Cave, sorry, Leanda Cave. Yeah.

So it's not an easy task. But you know what? Like I think Lucy did the best choice to say, you know what, I can't do both. I agree, I agree. She knows where she's at and I'm going to talk with Laura Siddall about the women, she kind of knows where she's at. But you talked about the adjustment and the reserve, but scientifically if anybody's got it figured out it may be the Norwegians. If it comes down to that, if it is an exact science of how to be able to keep those reserves in reserve and have them sitting there waiting for you in Kona, it'd probably be those guys.

Yeah, I'm not sure if they're actually looking at that. Oh, wow. You know, not in the ways that I was looking at that topic. I'm sure they're measuring some level of how recovered am I so that they don't overtrain. When they are recovered, they blast, that kind of a thing. Yeah. But it'll be interesting to see how does Casper respond to the environment in Hawaii. Kristian has had some challenges with it. Gustav had an amazing race when he won, but is he at the level that he was when he was winning?

Is somebody like Ditlev, Magnus, you know, where is he on this scope?

Yeah, there's so many questions. And I think that's what makes this year even more exciting than any of the others. Usually we have, oh, this person will probably get first, this one will get second, this one will get third. I'm not going to make those predictions. I think it's a guessing game. It really is. People all have their favorites and that's who they'll choose. I mean, whoever wins the race certainly deserves it.

And we're both gonna be incredibly proud of them.

The thing I would hope for is I hope Patrick gets on the podium. That would be fantastic to see him on the podium at his last race, almost 40 years. I think it'd be 40 on race day.

But the way those guys are riding, the heat may be a factor which is to his advantage. You just never know. And to some others' advantage. Yeah, well I think, you know, I'd have to check the record book, but I think he's probably run the fastest marathon in Hawaii. Yeah, he has. I don't think anybody's come close.

You know, Casper went 2:29 or whatever it was in Nice last year, but that's Nice. You cannot compare the two. No. And so, you have somebody who's proven that they can run that amazing marathon.

That's a plus in your quiver of good things you wanna have with you on race day. And you know what I just thought about? And we all know it's happening, the men and women are together again, they haven't been together in Kona since 2022. And that adds to the aura and luster of everybody's event. I think that is a positive, you can call it spiritual, you can call it the coming together of the ages, everyone, to where people can feed off that.

I don't know why, I just thought about that and I feel that way, that the men and women are gonna be able to feed off each other with their races. Pros and age groupers alike. You know, I tell people all the time that it seems like nothing happens on the island of Hawaii without the island sort of consenting to it or involved with it. And so, you know, my guess is that bringing everybody back together, having one day of racing, the island's gonna serve up something that will make it something that none of us ever forget.

Well, I'm glad I'm going back.

You'll get to watch it live in person. You'll get to feel the intensity of it all. It'll be a different perspective for me, that's for sure. That's for sure. I'll enjoy the day. I'll be hanging around with you. Where are we going next, Mark? (laughing) Where do we watch the- Where do you wanna go? Whatever it is.

I know, it'll be just one of the many. It'll be great. Well, Mark, I can't wait to see you in Kona and good luck there in Nice. Obviously, we recorded the show while you're in Nice, and it'll be out in a few weeks.

Brother, what I love about your commitment to our sport and to our athletes is always above that line everybody else works at. And I respect that and appreciate that, and everybody does, because, man, you're still in the game, and the game is a big part of you, but you're a big part of the sport. And I'm glad you're doing what you're doing and you do it. Jesus, you're never home. You do it everywhere.

You're from Vietnam, the niece. Where's Mark? I text you and I go, oh, sorry, I didn't get back here. And I'm like, I was on a plane. I'm going to Bangladesh. I don't know where you're going. You're going somewhere.

I'm thinking, man, he usually likes being in the water in Santa Cruz surfing, you know? Yeah, you know, I really got super inspired and invigorated the year before the Paris Olympics because I was able to go to the test event in Paris and watch the folks who were vying for the Olympic Games in Paris do their thing on the Olympic course. And it was just incredible to see that level of racing, which, and I hadn't been around that side of the sport for a long time.

to people taking eight hours and these races are like lightning fast and the mixed relays and all that and so and then you combine that with some of the stuff that the you know IRONMAN has done with you know the Pro Series and you combine that with what's going on with T100 there's just so much vitality in the sport and you know there's there's a lot of younger people who are getting into the sport now and I was I was actually just at a crazy thing I was just at the Scout Jamboree that they only have every four years or whatever it is. Yeah. And they brought me in because one of the benefactors, Dave Alexander, they created a badge that you can earn a triathlon badge as a Scout. And so at the Jamboree, they had a triathlon and they had slots for 150 kids. They had over 500 who wanted to do it. And so they had a huge waiting list and they brought in mountain bikes for all the kids. They didn't have to bring bikes.

They just had to do the swim. It was a sprint race. I saw a lot of the other events that were going on around the Jamboree and when those kids crossed that finish line, they had this look on their face like, "I just did something that was hard. I had to earn it and I am proud of what I've done, what I just did." It's not like doing a zip line where you finish and you got a smile on your face because it was thrilling and you forget about it five minutes later. These kids will remember what they did at that jamboree, crossing that finish line in that triathlon, many of them their very first triathlon ever. Because it's something that you have to earn and when you earn something that's hard, it sticks with you and it changes you and it gives you that next level of what should I actually be dreaming of here because I just did this thing that I wasn't even sure if I could do.

So anyway, there's just so much going on in the sport of triathlon, especially because LA 2028 is coming up and the women's medal in triathlon is gonna be the first medal awarded. How great is that? And so there's so much vitality and opportunity for us to really build on this history that started way back basically in 1978 on Oahu with a handful of crazy folks and turned into something that people realize can be life changing, life transforming.

You know, your book that's coming out is highlights so many of those stories of life lessons that have been learned through triathlon, through sport, through endurance events, through enduring something difficult, through committing yourself, getting yourself out of a tough space by committing to something that is uncertain even finish it and affirming to yourself, like, you know what, my son died, I had cancer, you know, whatever that thing was, I can do this thing that affirms like, I am alive and I am committed to life and I'm gonna keep doing this.

And so, you know, it's on a basic level, you're swimming, you're biking, you're running. How do you train for it? You swim, you bike, you run a lot, you know, and then you go to a race and how do you finish the race? well, you gotta like, keep kind of sucking it up. And it's hard. And when you cross the finish line, you're like, you don't think about how hard it was, you think about how amazing it was. And so you know, it's a small sport, compared to football, soccer, basketball, you name the popular sports, we all know what they are. But this is accessible to anybody who has that. That thing that says, you know what, I want to, I want to do something different I want to do something different for myself.

And there's so many stories that can inspire people for that. And so, you know, interview listening, you better read this book, "Finding Your Finish Line," because Mike has so many great stories in there and he's outlined so many human qualities that can either set us free or hold us back if we look at them and develop them, or if we just let them sort of slide off the side of our life.

So anyway, you know, I rattled on there. Sorry, Mike. That's all right. Your passion is what teaches us all to keep moving forward. I wrote it in a book. If you're standing still, you're moving backwards. And what we do helps people move forward. And that's what you do every day. So Mark Allen, I know we had no real predictions. It's kind of a five, six person race out there in Kona for the men.

And I'm gonna have Laura Siddall on in just a minute and she'll go over the women with us. So Mark, I can't wait to see you in Kona, buddy. I'll see you there. Okay, aloha. Thank you again to Mark Allen for talking with us about the men's race in Kona on October 10th. And now we have the one and only Laura Siddall aka Sids. She is a six-time IRONMAN champion, three times in Australia.

And the one time I got to bring her in, in New Zealand. I'll never forget when you did the M2, you had a smile so wide on your face.

Even though you had won other IRONMAN races, for some reason, did that race mean something to you more than others when you won IRONMAN New Zealand? Yeah, I mean, well, thanks for having me on, Mike. I'm looking forward to the chat. Yeah, obviously, I spent a lot of time in New Zealand. I lived in the South Island in Christchurch and raced there quite a few years. So I had a lot of good friends, felt very much like family. And I think then, yeah, just managing to secure the win. And you know, any, you know, more than any finish line is special, right? So, and we never take it for granted when we get the opportunity to step onto that red carpet as the first, the first athlete.

Um, and I think, yeah, New Zealand has a special place in my heart for, for many, many reasons. So, yeah, that one was a special one. And obviously having you there makes it pretty special too. Only adds to it. Thank you. Thank you. You know, it's pretty interesting that the many professional athletes that I brought across the finish line and the ones that won an IRONMAN race, whether it was Kona or New Zealand or wherever, and they didn't win one for like two or three years, you know, something about the formula.

And then they come back and win one. It's like, that's, oh my God, I finally did it again because it's not like you say, you come across that red carpet first. You cannot take that for granted at all. And it's one of those feelings that you wish you could like, I think I'm probably quite an emotional racer as well. And because I'm not, I was never winning every race. So it was always, you know, that very lucky to win the six I did. And I'm very grateful for that. But it's that if you could just bottle up those sensations and those feelings as you step onto that red carpet and you get to run down, because that's, you kind of, that's what you forget it or you miss it.

And when you're thinking back on your career and stuff, you're like, Oh, if I could just feel those emotions again. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, we're going to talk about Kona. Yeah, it hails from the UK. You live in the US. Now, she's sitting where Mark was in Nice, France for the 70.3 World. This will air obviously afterwards.

But the women's race in Kona. You know, you can go through the list and look at the top five or six, which you always kind of have a tendency to do because that's the way the seedings are placed. But I want you to go deeper than that because you know the field better than I do and so many others do. But Solveig, with her winning last year in Nice, what's gonna be the pivot point, the difference for her?

Obviously, we can talk about heat and wind and they're predicting it could be very, very warm in Kona on October 10th. Do you think the island could maybe give her a race that she didn't expect?

It's interesting. I think Solveig's coming to Kona this year as a very different athlete. You know, last year, it was her first year doing the IRONMAN and she was almost sort of running. Yes, she's a competitor, she's a racer, she's obviously been to the Olympics, but she was sort of coming with unknown, not having the expectations and without discrediting her performance 'cause it was amazing, almost won because, you know, Taylor and Lucy, and that's racing.

So that is how it goes and you have to time it to perfection. I know Solveig says herself, you know, if, if it was 40 K in the marathon, Taylor would have won if it was 43 K Kat would have won. Well, they did it Solveig won because it's 42.2. But I think what we're seeing this year is her confidence as a champion come and she races a little bit differently and races with that confidence. And the thing I think will be interesting is how she handles race week commitments coming in as a world champion. And if that has an impact, like I've heard a couple of, you know, she races a lot on enjoyment and she seems to be loving the sport. She loves the long distance.

And when you race, you know, happy athlete is a fast athlete, but she's even mentioned last year, looking at like Laura Philipp and some of the other athletes and the number of commitments they had as champions. And that was a lot, but she's a smart athlete. She's young. She's been been to the Olympics. I think she is an athlete that can do well in the heat as well though, and she can obviously do well in the wind because she's a strong athlete. Not that we've had crazy winds the last few years, but I think the heat, I don't think, I think she's a very solid athlete across the board. There isn't one discipline that particularly stands out. She can swim well, she can bike well, she can run well, and I think she can handle the heat. I think she got a, she had a, I wouldn't say a shock, but we saw, I think in Hamburg, even though she won, it was her probably most challenging races that she's had. And she really was having to work on that marathon. And it's probably the first time she's felt really in that position, but also talking to her afterwards, it was the first time she actually genuinely really felt that drive and that desire to win. And now I think and that's because I think now she's been the champion, she's won and now she's got this. Whereas before last year, it was all kind of like new, no expectations.

So I think she's right. Yeah. That that Hamburg race, Laura could could have laid down a foundation for her mentally. Like, oh, my gosh, I can I can get through this because mentally that's what it's all about, especially the last, you know, 15 K, 20 K of the run. It's the war of attrition, isn't it, in Kona? Yeah, it just really is. So you've got so many, I mean, Kat Matthews and Laura Philipp and Lucy and Hannah Berry even, and Chelsea Sodaro, who's the world, you know, former world champion.

That race, especially with what we saw Lucy and Taylor do in Nice, and God, I keep thinking of the race being strategical, but yet somebody's going to have to hold back just to see if there's a reserve left. They can go get them. They can be winning that race at 38k and finish strong. So you think it's going to be that type of race or somebody's just going to be out there 12 minutes ahead of everybody? Yeah, it's super interesting as always. So we've got several fascinating facts about this years champions racing. So Solveig, giving in mind we're a few weeks out, so touch wood they all get to the start line, but Solveig from last year, Laura Philipp, we've got Lucy Charles-Barclay and Chelsea. Then you add in Kat who's been second three times at IRONMAN, twice at 70.3, Taylor Knibb three times 70.3 world champion, plus others, which I'll come onto. We've also got seven of the top 10 from last year returning to the island. And the interesting thing about Kona compared to any other IRONMAN on the circuit, it's the world championships, it's the island, it makes people do funny things. But I think you have these athletes that are at the top of their game that are going to go boom or bust. They're all in for the win and they're going to take the risks because they're either, they want the win or it's kind of nothing. And then you get the athletes that play the solid patient game and if they can be consistent and strong and in the mix all day, but not sort of show,

not not take too many risks, they're there to run through and pick up the pieces. Hannah Berry is one of those, like an incredibly good athlete. Again, I don't think he's going to particularly take any risks, but will be steady. And that's and I think we're starting to see the changing dynamic though of the women where it was probably a few years ago, it was more about, and this is the same with the sport in general, it was more about pacing, about patience, about waiting to that last 10k in the run. Now with the standard coming up, it's just getting faster and faster. There is a little bit more of an element of racing and when do you burn those matches and when do you go? I mean, Lucy Charles-Barclay is always going to be up the road at the start of the race. We all know how she races. She's off the front in the swim. She's going to hang out as long as she can on the bike and hopefully she's off in front on the run. I think, and interestingly, she's decided not to race 70.3 World Championships now. And I haven't heard anything, so do not quote me on this. That could be all in on Kona. It could be that she's got an injury or a niggle that she just wants to take care of. She is on that board. You know, she is, she always struggles a little bit with that. But she's potentially the only one that's going to be up the road from, from the gun. But I do think the likes of Taylor could ride up to her. Like we saw in a challenge Roth, she was, she wasn't actually that far out ahead of the chases out the swim, like Alana Siff. I think she was only about 90 seconds And they caught her by 30 K on the bike.

Very unusual for Lucy, but she was coming back from injury at the beginning of the year and not as much racing. And we're now several months on. Um, and we know that Lucy looking actually at the, also the number of starts and the number of times that people have raced in Kona, Lucy has, is the most experienced athlete on the start list. She's started six. She's raced what finished five. She knows this island, she knows how to race it.

I think it's going to be interesting, like last year Solveig got away from the likes of Kat Matthews on the bike course. We saw in Texas this year before Kat unfortunately got the flat, like when Solveig tried to go away, Kat didn't let her go this time and she was trying to stay with her. So I think Kat knows if to give her the best place to go for the win, she's got to stay. She can't let Solveig go up the road. Even though Kat is probably the one at like the best, well, she has the run course record in Kona.

So I don't think we're going to see, if anyone's going to be up the road, it's going to be sort of that, it's going to be Lucy, I think. And then followed by probably like a Taylor, very similar to last year, but it will be how far up the road. And I obviously think Lucy and Taylor, they have the same coach, but they're going to have learned and taken a lot from last year. We saw them both bounce back and they went one, two in 70.3 after Kona. I don't think they're going to, I don't think they're going to have that, touch wood they don't anyway, have that same experience where they don't get the fueling right and they overheat as much. Yeah. You know, you made an interesting comment about, you know what, they're not there to take second place.

And I feel that more this year, especially with the women and the men, too. But with the women, like, you know what, I'm not going there for second place. And there's been times when I've known people come across finish line pros in second place and they're ecstatic. Oh my gosh, I'm on the podium. And that attitude has kind of gone away. And you sure as heck know, Lucy doesn't want to be second. She's done that enough. So, and she knows what winning is all about. Second for her would probably crush her.

Laura, you know, obviously she's a champion.

But that's the interesting thing. So Solveig is coming back defending champion. Lucy won in 2023. She wants to show she can win again. Laura Philipp won in Nice. She hasn't won in Kona, so that's the driver. Chelsea wants to prove again that she can be the best in the world after winning. And Kat hasn't yet won. And that's just those top five.

That, oh, and then obviously, and Taylor has never hidden the fact she wants to win Kona. And then, like, add in Julie Derron.

who is no one's really talking about that much. It'll be interesting to see how she goes at 70.3 worlds. She qualified for Kona last year, didn't race because she got injured and sick beforehand, but look what she did at the Olympics and look what she's done over the T100. And she won the two IRONMAN where she's raced and qualified. She's done so relatively easily without being challenged. And you never know with the coach and that team of athletes what they're going to do. I know, I know. And then, you know, I'm interested too. Paula Findlay had a great race at IRONMAN Lake Placid as her IRONMAN debut and obviously qualified for Kona. She's in Nice there with you. What kind of factor do you think Paula would be? I mean, that's just such an unknown for me because of the place and the distance.

Yeah. And it was, again, super impressive to watch Paula's performance in Placid. And I love the quote that she said, you know, she's been training for her whole life for this race at the moment. I think she said, I've been training for like 18 years for this. What's everybody talking about?

I think she's really fascinating because that race to me looked very controlled. I know she like struggled at the end of the marathon, but anyone does and, and you know, and that, and I think I'm probably going to have like shoot myself in the foot here. I think she can definitely challenge and be up there. And I think like her bike, she's going to be sort of chase pack coming out. And what could be interesting is if like Solveig, Kat Matthews, Paula, Laura, if she can get on that group, if those four come out and swim together, that is a powerful bike unit. If they work together and don't blow each other up, they could really do well. And then once they get to the run, it's sort of every man for himself. I think Paula has the bike strength to do some damage and mix it up on the bike, whether she's just got the experience with the run legs for that second half of the marathon. And we know that you've got to be running well out of the Energy Lab to stand a chance. If you're coming out of the Energy Lab and you're suffering, it's a long last 10k. But if she can, and I think she's smart, she's patient, she's experienced, she's not over this distance and not over Kona, but she's got a good team around her. I definitely think she can mix it up on the bike and cause some trouble. And I think I wouldn't be surprised if we see her in the top five or even podium.

and yeah.

I want to talk to you too about doing the 70.3 and then IRONMAN a month later, but before I do, I just had a vision of, I don't know why, but I've just kind of felt the run is going to be a crowded affair. And obviously we saw that happen in Nice last year with Kat and Taylor and Lucy and Solveig. I mean, they were, but the way the race in Kona can break out, even if somebody like Lucy gets off the bike with a whatever minute lead. I think there's going to be two, three, four and five, they're going to be coming into T2 together and running out together. I don't think they're going to let each other go.

They may for a little bit, but you see that running race being a kind of a crowded affair, which spectator wise we, oh my gosh, this is the best, you know. I yeah, from a fan of the sport and a spectator, and I'm obviously going to be on the ground commentating following the women, following the women's race. I want to see it close affair. Like I want to see them, you know, shoulder to shoulder and really having that run battle. I think the other thing that's interested, I don't know if you talked about it with Mark, is that Kona is going to be the first year that we see the 20 meter draft rule in place. That's right. We didn't talk about that.

That's right. that will have an impact. Like yes, the women's race is different to the men. The men you do get the long, you tend to in the past have had the long packs of men and that will be interesting to see at 20 meters. I think the women's is changing as well with the depth of women and the strengths of the women. We've got more strong swim bikers, that sort of thing. But I think that 20 metre could really allow for things to break up. Interestingly, what we are seeing with the 20 metre this year, it's not necessarily impacting the run. I think what you're seeing is at 20 metres, the athlete is holding a more consistent wattage across the 180 kilometres or the 112 miles, which actually suits most IRONMAN athletes better. When it was sort of 12 meters, you'd see those spikes of energy as they were sort of having to pass or yo-yo effect and all of that.

And when you have a smoother distribution of power, even if you're at 20 meters, so your power average might be slightly higher than it has been in previous years, it's more constant. You've got better run legs off the back of it. So it's not affecting the run, it's almost enhancing it in some ways and making the run faster.

But I do think, I mean, I'd love it to see if we've got, there might be one off the front, there might be two off the front, but I think that like third, fourth, fifth through to even 10th or 15th could be pretty close. And there's going to be loads of changes of places, I think, in that element. And there's lots of athletes that could be in that mix. You know, we've got Imogen Simmonds returning.

Yeah, yeah. Which is interesting. Yeah, and she and Katrine Christensen as well as had a fantastic year over the IRONMAN. Marjolaine Pierre had a great race in Nice in 2024, hometown race.

Didn't perform that well in Kona before, but is coming again, different coach as a different athlete this year. She's now coached by her partner.

Who else did I got? We've said Paula. Another one like Fenella Langridge back racing. She's going to be one that's going to be mixing it up at the water in the swim at the front and the bike. Tamara Jewett running through, Grace Thek. Jackie Hering has got history. I think India Lee could be another one to watch as well in that mix. You've got some other really strong bikers, but they're going to be potentially probably too far back out of the water to make an impact on the podium, but they definitely could be making that impact in those. They could get top tens. You know, I think it was last year we had Sarah Sphynx and I think it was, I don't know, hopefully I got this right name.

I think it was Leone Consala who I think will last out the water and then finish 10th and 11th or 9th and 10th at the end because they just biked and ran through. So for those further down the field in Kona, you've just got to keep your head in the game. Like you can't because it is such a long day and people are gonna explode at the end of the, you know, you get to the air, if you're not riding strong from the airport back to town, you're probably in trouble. And then if you're not running well out the energy lab. So if you can, if you're further back out, if you're a weaker swimmer, but you can just hold your game and hold your pace like one of, well, one of my best races was actually, it was, it's also one of those split decisions. Like I had the best swim of my life and I came out with the chase pack. And then we have that first 10k lap round town, which is a bit like a crit race. And I made a decision, I didn't go, I should have put a bit more power in and probably gone with the group. And then I'd have had a group along with the Queen K. As it happened, I didn't do that. But I ended up riding the whole day on my own. But it was my own power. And then I ran and I finished 10th. Now, if I'd have gone with the if I'd have made that decision, could I finished higher up potentially, could I also have blown my legs off potentially? So it's that should have, would have, could have. So it's those split seconds decisions at the start in that first lap around town before you get onto the Queen K. But for some of those weaker swimmers, they could find themselves like running through to get top tens by the end of it by just keeping their head in the game.

Yeah, because you know, the regret of, not the regret, but the work you do when you're by yourself. I don't have to tell you that. It's almost like, what am I doing out here? 180K and I'm freaking by. I've had so many go. There was nobody around. I was battling everything on my own. And so, you're right. Looking back, I should have stayed with those guys. So what if I'd have blown up a little? I wouldn't have been, because you know what it's like to be on your own. So the athletes that are there doing Nice, and a month later, coming to Kona. Yeah. You know, Mark talked about the reserves that not everybody's got the reserves in the tank to be able to do the next two or three weeks after Nice and then come to Kona.

It works for some, but it doesn't work for others. What's your philosophy on that?

Purely individual on that one. And that's when the athlete and the coach have to sit down and talk, you know, I've heard conversation like Laura Philipp talking about, yes, they're doing something a little bit different. Do they know if it's going to work? No, but they've got to try it. They've never done anything. And if you think about it, really. Four weeks out, the athletes are probably doing a really hard training session anyway. Yes, there is a different energy being taken with. It's not just the taper and the recovery, because Again, it's a 70.3. A lot of these athletes, if they're preparing for IRONMAN, they're going to bounce back into training pretty well. Yes, in a race, you probably go to a slightly more, slightly another level than you would in training because you're not in that shoulder to shoulder battle.

But I think the thing that takes it out is the activities, the events, the immediate commitment, the energy of interaction with the crowd and the days leading up to the race that could be the toll and like the likes of a Solveig, Lucy's not here, but Tate and all of those. So it's managing those commitments as well. In terms of, is this going to take anything out of them in Kona? I don't know until we get to Kona and who knows if it's going to be a factor. It could just be the day in Kona doesn't go their way, not necessarily something that happens in this race. They've got 70.3 words. Everyone talks about it being a tough course. It is. I don't want to discredit it, but it's not like a constant rolling or a constant hilly. It's half of it's climbing, half of it's descending, and it's a flat run course. I'm not saying flat's easy. It is on concrete and asphalt, so it can beat your legs up. But it's also, I think a lot of these will probably try and bounce back quite well.

And they've all got, I think the difference now is the sports science, the nutrition, the support networks they have around them as athletes will put them in the best place to get that recovery and then go, they'll be pretty quick back into some level of training ready to go to Kona. I think it's, and if you look at most, I don't think there's many, I'm now trying to find the other start list, many who are racing in, out of the top names at 70.3 Worlds are all in Kona. There's no like pure 70.3 specialists in that bucket. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I think the other factor too that I think adds. To everybody's performance and obviously on the men's side, you get the Norwegians and they the camaraderie is insane and same with so big. I mean, they it's just insane. But I believe that since the men and women are together for a one day race in Kona again, is an advantage for everybody.

I just think everyone plays off one another, the attitude, the good nature of being together. I think it has a huge factor on people really wanting to win this one. I came back, you know, last time we were together in 2022. And heck, we had two days of racing. Oh my gosh, that was my last year in Kona. I remember waking up the next morning going, are you kidding me? This is, I got to it all again. Groundhog day. You mean, I got to go to the pier and do the same.

It was just a, you know. But now it's all on the same day. Do you feel good about that? Being together, the men and women? I like that we're in the same location. Yeah, I mean, I know it was very tough on the organization and it was very tough on coaches And all the team that weren't there when it was the two days, but I really did like the Thursday, Saturday in that year.

Maybe that's 'cause I had a great day as well myself. I think I do like us all in the same location though. I do think that's good. And I think the other interesting thing, there are a couple of athletes racing, or actually probably quite a few, 'cause we've got about, there's over 20 of the women that are first timers in Kona. They've never raced a world championship as a double, like with the men on the same day.

'Cause if they've raced the last few years, it's always been separate.

So for them, yes, they've raced other Ironmans over the year where it's been on the same day, or there's obviously the single gender days, but there's quite a few of them, of the big names as well that haven't raced on that on the same day. Same day. Yeah, and you know, yeah, it is always, you know, there's always that point when you're riding up to Hawi and you see the men come back down and you're like, who's in the lead? Oh, well, first of all, you hear the helicopter and you can hear that. Yeah. Okay. They're nearly coming and you're gauging, right? How bad is my race? Cause how far are the men down the climb and I'm on the way up and you hear the helicopter and then you can see them and you can cheer them and then you're waiting obviously for that lead female to come through as well.

And the same on the run. I mean, I'm super excited that from a broadcast perspective, Obviously, I'd be interested in both races, but the reporters on the ground on the race, we're just concentrating on one gender. So I just can put all my attention into that women's race and I can make sure I'm in the right places at the right time to give the women the coverage. And then they'll have someone doing the same for the men. And it means we're just not having to split ourself to try and find that. Do we need to be here? Because when we catch the men, can the women and that sort of thing. So we can just be right.

I'm fully focused on the women. the best place to be. So you'll be obviously, I assume T1 and go up the high corner and maybe go down Hualalai a little bit or up top of the hill. I mean, you'll just stay in that area of town? For Kona, I'll be on a motorbike. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So I'm hoping we go up to Hawi. I'm hoping we're along the Queen K. Yeah. And the good thing about Kona, which is where it's a little bit trickier in Nice, is the highways pretty nice and wide. So in terms of getting a motor, like we don't want obviously loads of motorbikes on interfering with the race, but we can hopefully access the race pretty well. It's a little bit trickier here in Nice just because of the narrow roads and the descent. So yeah, so no, hopefully I'll like get up to Hawi and be able to see them look in the eyes as they go around the turnaround and then coming back in the different points.

Wear your sunblock for God's sake. Yes.

All day. All right. I'm going to put you on the spot a little. How about top three, top four? You want to give me what you think? Yeah, I can do it. Well, there's two names I haven't mentioned that I think could be in the mix. Oh my gosh, you got them coming out of the woodwork. I love this. I know.

Elisa Pertura and Amarta Sanchez. Pertura was on the list here. Yeah, the other two. But yes, top three, top five. I'm going to go, and I'm not, these aren't in any order. Well, I'd love all of them to win because I think just seeing somebody win is an amazing feeling and I just know how much work. I would love to see Kat get her World Championship title in Kona. So I'm going to put Kat on the podium somewhere. I'm going to put Lucy Charles-Barclay on the podium somewhere and I'm going to put Solveig. So I'm going to put those three. Oh, and then I forgot about Taylor. I always forget about Taylor. I'd love to see Taylor win as well. You see, this is the problem. There's too many, too many things. All right, I'm going to revive. That's my top four then. Taylor, Taylor Lucy Solveig Kat.

OK, and you know what's interesting about that? I'm like you, and I never predicted when I was announcing because I always, you know, I'm not going to say, hey, I would like so-and-so to win what everybody else is chop liver. I just never did that. Plus, I always wanted to make sure I took care of the one coming at me on a lead drive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that and that's the champion. But you take a look at your list, those four and even add Chelsea Sodaro, maybe one or two more. Laura. Yeah, Laura. Oh my gosh, you could finish fourth or fifth in this race and have one hell of a day. You could be so close, you know what I mean?

At fourth or fifth. And the thing about Kona is there is always going to be those athletes that come through and have their day. Hannah Berry last year, like solid all day and finishing what fourth was it I think in the end. And there's always going to be a couple of those athletes that haven't fully been on the radio and they just play it well, you know, play their cards right on the day. Other cards fall into place and there'll be that surprise, not surprise is the wrong word because they are all incredible athletes to be there, but they'll be the ones that you weren't maybe necessarily expecting and they'll grab a top five or a top 10. It's like 2022 when I was there, nobody expected Chelsea Sodaro and she went out and just

destroyed, beat up the field all day. I go, Oh my gosh, this is fantastic.

And then I'm now looking going, Oh, where did I put Laura Philipp in that top four? I didn't. I know. I know. Yeah, I know. And it's so hard because that's the thing, like, I just watching anyone win is an amazing feeling and you see the emotion and you see how much it means and knowing the work that goes in and how much dedication, hard work, drive that these athletes are putting in year after year. And I think actually this year, it is potentially really close. Like it could be any one of those few and others that could be podium or winning.

And the fact that like we said, we've got four of the previous world champions, which I'm not sure I'd have to check with the statisticians on that, whether that's been, we've had that before. Four women world champions in one race. I mean, it's hard because Daniela Ryf won for so long. She like wiped out five years or so. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So yeah, I don't know.

Those kind of stats, you know, if I put those stats in my head, I wouldn't remember my name tomorrow morning. I can't be a Bob Babbitt. I go, "How'd you come up with that?" "Well, yeah, didn't you know that?" I go, "I knew it then, not 20 years later." (laughs) It's the same. I find Crowie as well has an incredible memory for stats and names and facts about athletes and race results. Yeah, absolutely incredible.

He does, he really does. So we got a lot of age groupers that listen to the podcast. Laura, what kind of advice would you give age groupers that are heading to Kona? Oh gosh, I think again, first timers, go and enjoy it. Like this is your party, this is your celebration, this is your Christmas morning. You've got the qualification. I think like embrace everything that Kona Week offer. It is a magical place. It is special, but it can be draining on energy. Yes, go out and do all the things and really take it in, but make sure you do have some quiet time and you aren't arriving at race morning completely drained of energy because you've been doing the under run and whatever swims every day to the coffee boat and you've had your race on the Queen K the day before riding. I think enjoy it as a first timer. I think For those that have more serious aspirations, maybe you've been there before, keep your head in the game because anything can happen.

Patience, look after yourself. You can never keep yourself... I think my best days were from the very first aid station, just grabbing water, pouring it over my head from the very start, just managing that body temperature. And also just still try that. age groupers, your amateurs, this is your hobby, this is your passion.

It's going to be hard work, but it should still be fun. You should still be enjoying it. And I think, like you said, the atmosphere this year is going to be bigger and better than ever with both genders back together. More exciting things coming from IRONMAN. We've got the culmination of the Pro Series. You've got different sponsors and brands coming in and just having everyone back on the island. I think it's going to be a really huge year. the standard of racing across the board, the age groupers, excuse me, age groupers are getting faster, the pros are getting faster. Who knows what Madame Pele will throw up, but it'll be a pretty, I think it's going to be a pretty good year. I'm pretty excited.

She'll win a few battles. She always does, Madame Pele. So that's always a given. Laura, thank you very much for being a part of Finding Your Finish Line podcast. I should ask you, what's your predictions? What's your I mean, I do get mine's Lucy. I think Kat could be right there if she has a very, very smart race. And then Laura Philipp, I think Taylor may. I don't know. Taylor's an unknown factor. She could win the race and just bury everybody.

But that's my three right there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Taylor, like we talked about, sorry, keep going on. talked about doing the athletes doing 70.3 worlds and then Kona. You've got Taylor doing in theory, I don't think it's fully confirmed, the UCI World Time Trial Championships on the 22nd of September as well. And then like if you flip it back the other way, there's only been like really Laura Philipp who's raced in the last few months of this half of the year. The rest sort of Cal, yeah, Cal Miles being the last one. So yeah, but Laura's in, yeah, I think it seems to be working for Laura. I think she's in some of the best shape. I mean, maybe we should be recording. It'll be interesting to see after, yeah, 70.3 Worlds, how that day runs, plays out and then affects things. If it does.

Yeah, I kind of want, that's why I wanted to do this beforehand. I wanted to go into both. We're just clean slate. You know what I mean? So yeah, no changing predictions after this. It's been recorded, everyone heard. Yeah, we're down. I'm hopeless on predictions, I always get it way wrong. I know that's so hard, I just never, it's just so hard. Well, I can't wait to see you in Kona, my dear, and good luck with the whole broadcast. I'll be there as an ambassador, spectator, VIP, running around going, "Where's Laura?

I'm gonna find her now."

(laughing) get to do those types of things, you know? Well, it'll be great to see you, Mike. It'll be great. Thank you very much. And thank you, everybody, for listening to another edition of Finding Your Finish Line. And I will be on the island. I'll have my book there at the Expo. And I can't wait to see you all.

So no matter what happens, always remember you're the cause of your own experience. How you react to what happens around you and others around you make you who you are. So keep it positive. Thanks, everybody. Aloha.